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I am in dilemma

Discussion in 'Medical Exams' started by Eleeeepil, Aug 22, 2009.

  1. Eleeeepil

    Eleeeepil New Member

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    I failed my resit exam and now i have to repeat a year. I failed the written paper, which i thought i did okay before the results was out.

    Because I felt positive about the paper before results came out, I requested to view my paper because I want a clear picture of what went wrong. The medical school initially promised me, however later on i was told that it is the university policy. I was then told that I will be given a detailed feedback (No idea how detailed it will be?).

    I have this sort of feelings that the medical school keep buying time, waiting for me to give up. All I want is an answer to what went wrong.

    Now the question is: What should i do? I feel like letting this go, but what if i repeated the same mistakes in the coming year? i do not want to take the risk.

    Serious opinions please.
     
  2. Trauma

    Trauma New Member

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    First am really sorry you didnt pass your resit, its very depressing going through that, but it should be worth while in the long terms...

    The medical school doesnt need to "keep buying time", for you to give up. If its a policy they will state it as it is, many medical school dont give the students their papers and just give some feedback on the performance which is normally enough for you to know where you went wrong..
    So I think with some feedback you shouldnt make the same mistakes again..
     
  3. Eleeeepil

    Eleeeepil New Member

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    Hello trauma, You are right. But I havent got any feedback until today (which is more than 2 months now). And they did show the paper to us when we failed the first time. Cant they be more flexible?

    The feedback they give arent helpful. I am not the only one who feel so, many others who failed and had feedback feel the same too.
     
  4. Trauma

    Trauma New Member

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    Best is to speak to your personal tutor they should be the first to help with these issues..
    If there is a group of you who feel the same you should all complain as a group..may be through a student rep or send an email to any senior in the school whoes known to be supportive.. in every med-school there must be at least one!
     
  5. TimC-B

    TimC-B New Member

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    Hey,

    I'd agree with what Trauma is saying. Medical Schools are often just burdened by beurocracy and poor communication rather than deliberately being difficult.

    Your first port of call must be your tutor, and through them they should be able to get support for you. Feel free to contact your undergraduate dean (director of medical education, or equivalent) and complain about your circumstances. You're paying £3,000 per year for your education at whichever Uni you're at, and informing you of the full circumstances of failing this exam is their duty.

    Finally I hope you're a member of the BMA - if so contact askBMA (phone number on their website) or via your local Rep. They will then be able to offer you expert advice and support, particularly through a local expert called an Employment Advisor who will be able to inform you of your rights in this kind of situation.

    Hope that helps!

    Tim
     
  6. Eleeeepil

    Eleeeepil New Member

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    Thanks for the replies. I really appreciate that.

    1. I have contacted my tutor. She had sent an email to the one in charge of giving feedback. No reply to date.

    2. I wanted to see the dean but i was told that the dean doesnt deal with this. I was directed to head of medical education. Spoken to him. He said he will give me detailed feedback on a fixed date appointment. Appointment cancelled at the very last minute. Hes now off on holidays till 2 weeks later (i think).

    3. There is a lady who works in the medical school. Shes part of the academic progress comittee. I am lucky that she is very supportive and always give guidance to all of us. I have spoken to her so many times about this. There is nothing much she can do, i think. she had spoken to the head of medical education on behalf of me. Whate else can she or i do?

    4. Complain in a group? thats a good idea. will consider that.

    5. i am a member of bma. i will get their guidance asap.

    4. I have already started the year (again), yet ihavent got my feedback. funny. So dissapointed with how the medical school is treating me. Is it really that unreasonable to request to view the paper? It has been so long and i still didnt know what went wrong. I have questioned myself several times if i am in denial. i have thought of all the possibilites that could go wrong - maybe i was too stress/tired while i was answering the questions, maybe i didnt answer all the questions, maybe what i thought was right wasnt, maybe this and that.... i am tired.
     
  7. TimC-B

    TimC-B New Member

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    I'm glad you've contacted the BMA, as you're a member lodge a complaint through the askBMA service. You need to explain to them exactly what's happened. It would be helpful if you had a copy of your medical schools procedures for academic progression to hand.

    It's good that your tutor and the member of the academic progress committee are being helpful, they are useful people to have on your side. It's very poor performance from your director of medical education - they are the person you really need to see to air you grievances. The Dean is usually only a figurehead involved in the management and promotion of the school, so won't be able to help you.

    It's a nuisance, it really is, but don't beat yourself up about it. Things like this happen and it's rubbish, but you've just got to pick yourself up and move on. Stressing and worrying about it isn't going to help. Your medical school have treated you inexcusably badly, and it's important that you check to see their policy on dealing with situations like this and if they have acted within their own guidance, and whether this guidance is in line with the BMA Medical Students Committee & Medical Schools Council Charter, which can be found here: Member only content. This was a set of best practice criteria agreed and ratified between the two organisations.

    Your case certainly violates section 1.8 on page 7 under Education responsibilities of the Medical School, which states:

    "1.8 Give impartial, timely and constructive feedback on individual student progress and
    performance, including explanations for failure.

    If a student is failing to meet academic standards at any point of the course they should be given constructive feedback and support. A reasonable time is within 2 weeks of a problem being established."

    It is also in violation of the new 2009 version of GMC's Tomorrows Doctors. It's not yet been published, however the version ratified by Council in July is available here GMC | Council meeting May 2007 as GMC council is a public organisation. Annex B is the post-consultation draft and your problem is in violation of:

    "52. Quality management must cover all aspects of undergraduate medical education, not just teaching. This covers planning, monitoring and the identification and resolution of problems, and includes the following areas:

    • appraisal of, and feedback to, students
    • pastoral and academic support for students"

    "88. Students will have regular feedback on their performance.

    90. Students will receive timely and accurate guidance about assessments, including assessment format, length and range of content, marking schedule and contribution to overall grade.

    114. Students must receive regular information about their development and progress. This should include feedback on both formative and summative assessments. Clinical logbooks and personal portfolios, which allow students to identify strengths and weaknesses and to focus their learning, can provide this information. Using these will emphasise the importance of maintaining a portfolio of evidence of achievement, which will be necessary once they have become doctors and their licence to practise is regularly revalidated. All doctors, other health and social care workers, patients and carers who come into contact with the student should have an opportunity to provide constructive feedback about their performance. Feedback about performance in assessments helps to identify strengths and weaknesses, both in students and in the curriculum, and this allows changes to be made.

    126. Students will have comprehensive guidance about the curriculum, their placements, what is expected of them and how they will be assessed.

    127. Students will have appropriate support for their academic and general welfare needs and will be given information about these support networks.

    130. Medical schools will have robust and fair procedures to deal with students who are causing concern on both academic and non-academic grounds. Fitness to practise arrangements and procedures will take account of the guidance issued by the GMC and MSC. Students must have clear information about these procedures.

    144. Guidance on the responsibilities of students and the medical school is in the Medical School Charter, produced jointly by the Medical Schools Council and the Medical Students Committee of the British Medical Association. (As above)

    148. Medical schools must provide appropriate support, advice and adjustments. They must also have robust and fair arrangements and procedures, including an appeals process, to deal with students who are causing concern − either on academic or non-academic grounds, including ill-health or misconduct. Medical schools must tell students about these arrangements and procedures so that they understand their rights and obligations. The medical school should decide on the most appropriate form of procedures, taking into account its statutes and circumstances.

    So feel free to quote these in your correspondence with the school. If the school continues to be unhelpful, you can also think about contacting the wider university support system to see if they can put pressure on the medical school.

    Hope that helps!

    Tim
     
  8. Eleeeepil

    Eleeeepil New Member

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    Thanks Tim.

    There is something that is holding me back to fight for this. I was told that medical school can pass/fail students based on their records. I have also heard of students who passed even though he didnt reach the threshold. Would medical school be strict on my coming exams if i pursue for this?
     
  9. Eleeeepil

    Eleeeepil New Member

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    how do i get hold of my medical school procedures for academic progression?
     
  10. TimC-B

    TimC-B New Member

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    No the medical school should not use this against you in any further dealings. They also do not use portfolio/record performance to determine exam pass or fail. Medical schools also cannot pass/fail students via their records in general.

    You should have received your academic progression pathway when you arrived at Medical school, or it will be online (for example on your Blackboard) or if not then you should be able to get it from your Faculty.

    Tim
     
  11. Bambi

    Bambi New Member

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    You know most med schools don't give any feedback at all! You should count yourself lucky if they tell you anything at all to be honest. I know that's bad but it's the way it is for everyone, you just have to deal with it. University courses in general give very little feedback, the only thing I ever got during my whole first degree was my % for each exam, even though the papers were sitting next to my personal tutor when he gave me my marks I wasn't allowed to see mine.
     
  12. Eleeeepil

    Eleeeepil New Member

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    bambi, are you sure most medical schools dont give feedback at all?
     
  13. Bambi

    Bambi New Member

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    Yes. Some only tell you whether you pass or fail an exam, some will tell you the %, a few will tell you your station breakdown in osces but not many, and very few, if any, will tell you anything more than that.
     
    #13 Bambi, Aug 30, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2009
  14. Eleeeepil

    Eleeeepil New Member

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    Which med schools dont tell students anything?
     
  15. Gizmo says -

    Gizmo says - New Member

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    if you are required to resit, you should make it your mission in life to excel at those exams.

    mek sure you do that next year, and spend the year out doing sumfing to add to your CV, macca.
     
  16. Bambi

    Bambi New Member

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    Depends what you mean by anything. Everywhere obviously tells you if you pass and these days most places will tell you your % but not everywhere. I don't know of anywhere that gives any kind of written feedback. Obviously I only go to 1 med school but I know people at loads and I seem to get more feedback than any of them and we just get % and osce station breakdown at the mo.
     
  17. Eleeeepil

    Eleeeepil New Member

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    gizmo: thank you for the advise.

    bambi: are you referring to feedback given to students who passed? how about students who failed? do they not get any additional feedback?
     
  18. Bambi

    Bambi New Member

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    All students. Some places will give a very general thing about how the year did as a whole and if there are any common weak spots but no one gets more than that as far as I know. Exactly what each school gives doesn't matter, what your school gives is all you should be worrying about. All I'm saying is that you shouldn't be making a big deal about not getting feedback, it's the same for everyone and if you can't pass on the same footing as everyone else then you aren't good enough to pass.
     
  19. thepriceofreality

    thepriceofreality New Member

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    I'm sorry, but that is an absolutely poor and defeatist attitude to take. How can people be expected to improve without being given feedback on the bits they need to improve on? The whole point of revising a subject is to spend time on the stuff that you're not so good at. This is particuarly important when re-siting an exam.

    Your argument of "well, it's the same for everyone" is just plainly rubbish - why don;t we force people to take medical exams in Braille, after all everyone would be in the same boat eh?

    Just as we, as medical students, have a duty to work hard and act professionally so does the medical school. They have a duty to train us with the skills to make us safe doctors, and part of that is offering regular, constructive feedback.

    "if you can't pass on the same footing as everyone else then you aren't good enough to pass." Huge, huge generalisation there. The fact is, not everyone *is* on the same footing. Some students have access to past questions some don't, some students have more friends in the year above some don't etc etc - not to mention the fact that some students may have had recent bereavements etc etc. Furthermore, it's unfortunate that Eleeeepil has failed, however, the words "you aren't good enough to pass" is NEVER helpful.

    For the record, my uni does provide feedback, but does not allow for us to look at our paper.
     

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